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Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

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TopCat
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Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by TopCat » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Ok the Challenge!
This coming weekend we have round 2 of the MDRA meet in the Isle of Man
(Manx Drag Racing Association)
If you recall Herman (B6 E21) managed to win the 14.30 class with a 14.32 @101 mph in July- the plan was to have Herman race against my Hartge H26.
Image
See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/59577851@N03/?saved=1
Herman on trade plates.......
Had a slight disaster in that Alan who has been retrimming the interior had a heart attack last week mid way through. He is in Liverpool hospital as I write this and I am sure that you will all join me in hoping he has speedy recovery.

So this means that we will be using "Big Red" my E30 Hartge H26 alone - the boys are sorting out a few issues here - all likely to be resolved before weekend though!
Original plan was to pitch one against the other!
So which car is faster? The driver will be the same- Me- so that parameter may be ignored!

First some info on "Big Red"
It is a 1991 reg E30 325i Sport that I have owned since 1994, and which I treated to a full Hartge conversion in period.
the top end has recently been rebuilt- staggering how large the valves are!
Slightly old P6000 Pirellis- 102k from new
But a lovely lumpy idle - it sounds far meaner than "Herman" the Alpina
Old dyno sheets say around 195 bhp
It has a Hartge shortshifter - Herman now has a shortshifter from a Z3- but during timed runs it did not............ on one run gearknob came off in my hand!! A weak spot certainly
It is certainly easier to drive smoothly/ well balanced- perhaps it is a case of familiarity?

Over to you guys -the experts.................. WDYT?

We may run Sat or Sunday depending upon weather (not both as I have my two small boys to cater for all w/e and a classic run Sunday pm -for Camilla the Camaro)


Answer will be available on Monday
Last edited by TopCat on Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Regards
Topcat
Isle of Man Inverness
1980 BMW E21 Alpina B6 2.8
1991 BMW E30 Hartge H26

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Jeroen
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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by Jeroen » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:17 pm

It's gonna be close I guess, but I expect the B6 to win by a hair. If it were track laps which are more my thing, the better balance and weight distribution of the H26 would clearly give it the edge over the B6. Curious about the outcome!
Regards/groeten, Jeroen

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by gerrit323 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:27 pm

In a straight line I also guess the alpina (if 218hp version) but as a true hartge fan I hope for the opposite :wink:
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TopCat
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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by TopCat » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:48 pm

OK so it is 2-0 to the Alpina so far!
Regards
Topcat
Isle of Man Inverness
1980 BMW E21 Alpina B6 2.8
1991 BMW E30 Hartge H26

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TopCat
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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by TopCat » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:58 pm

Well .........
Saturday was a washout

so we turned up today for the Ultimate Showdown!

In lane 1 we had Steve's E30 325i sport with nice Shrick cam, good exhaust and chipped and lane 2 was Big Red- Hartge E30

And in the background the target of a 14.32 @101 mph from Herman the Alpina!

Well I am afraid it really wasn't even close!

The Alpina cruised it!

Not only did Big Red lose every 1/4 mile against steve's E30 - I also lost the final street class against (ahem- I would rather not mention the opposition!)
Well OK it was a FWD Peugeot 106 GTI - with a remap and Toyos on splitties-- OUCH!

Big Red managed only a 15.80 @ 87 mph

In fairness (?) to Hartge I really don't think it was running as it should! Still having trouble with fluctuating temp guage - filled up with coolant at track, as well as a slight misfire under load when I tried a steep hillclimb en route for home
the standard 325i Sport E30 does exactly this time according to:
http://e30world.com/specifications/BMW-E30-specs-table

So it is Alpina 1 Hartge 0

Or put another way:
E21 1 E30 0

The thing about this is that we had great fun at this RWYB day= unlimited runs for £35 and as I mentioned earlier that all important timing slip- but in Big Red's case - a slight embarrassment!!
As we all say the bullshit stops when the flag drops- I guess Hartge will have to live with that- until we get the creases ironed out!
Next weekend we have a track day to try- quite complicated to try each car against eachother (given Herman's interior is only partially complete!)
Regards
Topcat
Isle of Man Inverness
1980 BMW E21 Alpina B6 2.8
1991 BMW E30 Hartge H26

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by Jeroen » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:02 pm

Hmmmm even though the Hartge lost as expected, this isn't what we were expecting. So work ahead, better do an exhaust gas check for any problems and otherwise it might be time for a decent remap.
Regards/groeten, Jeroen

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by TopCat » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:17 pm

You are right (as usual!)

Big Red has the standard igntn limiter- REALLY annoying given the cam should run to 7k!
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Topcat
Isle of Man Inverness
1980 BMW E21 Alpina B6 2.8
1991 BMW E30 Hartge H26

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by bastosm3 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:13 pm

Steve's (my) e30 325is managed 14.92 @ 96 mph

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by Jeroen » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:15 pm

Stock engine? Just to get an idea what would be the benchmark for other M20 powered cars. And we need more :takepicture here!
Regards/groeten, Jeroen

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by gerrit323 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:37 pm

Shame the hartge wasn't up to its full capacity .. like Jeroen said do the emission test an have it remapt to that result.

I have my completely modified 2.7 also with sharp cam etc... running on a standard alpina b3 2.7 mapping .. it perform really good between 3500 and 7000 rpm but doesn't run like it should be in lower and middle rev ranges .. So I will have to do the same as you i guess .. gas test and personal remap .. building a fast engine is one, making it run smooth trough the whole rev range seems to be more difficult ...

Gerrit
1988 e30 320is
1992 Mazda mx5
1994 e36 m3
2015 Renault Mégane RS 275 trophy
2016 Abarth Tourismo
2016 Fiat scudo workhorse


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TopCat
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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by TopCat » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:10 pm

A friend of mine who had a racing E30 has promised to give me a couple of his reprogrammed ECUs - all delimited to try out

I shall get Steve ("the victorious") to fit same and will see what happens! Stop gloating Steve!
Image
I do remember that Birds had trouble Hartge'sing my ECU since it was one of the very last E30 Sports (1991) it came with a cat- and mine was the first Cat equipped E30 that Birds had converted to H26

When DMS Automotive flew a mechanic over to remap my ZT-T (and a couple of Porsches- not mine!) they couldn't do a thing with Big Red's ECU either!

Will keep you all posted

Let's have more Drag times here of your E21s please?
Last edited by TopCat on Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards
Topcat
Isle of Man Inverness
1980 BMW E21 Alpina B6 2.8
1991 BMW E30 Hartge H26

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by bastosm3 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:46 pm

TopCat wrote:Well .........
Saturday was a washout

so we turned up today for the Ultimate Showdown!

In lane 1 we had Steve's E30 325i sport with nice Shrick cam, good exhaust and chipped and lane 2 was Big Red- Hartge E30
You say Good exhaust ??

check out my thread on e30 zone about this so called "good exhaust"

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 85#2243885

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by Jeroen » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:11 pm

Before we all have to register there, can you pls copy paste some stuff from E30 Zone? Something to be learned for all of us!
Regards/groeten, Jeroen

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by bastosm3 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:17 pm

At the start of the year i decided to purchase a scorpion system for my 325is.

I contacted John at Roadrunner Motorsport, who was very helpful in explaining to me which system i needed and the size of the manifold/downpipe flange on the system.

I was informed that they had the downpipes and the rear box in stock, but they were waiting for the centre section to be made.

The system finally arrived in march, and i purchased all the neccesary fixing parts from my local bmw dealer.


Exactly 1 month after the system was fitted, this was the state of the centre section

Image

Image

I had a local material specialist look at the problem, as scorpion refused to replace under warranty because of the small scratches you can see underneath.

He told me that the failure was down to heat fatigue, the stainless that has been used to make the centre section was 0.75mm thick. He then welded the cracks for me, and then totally reskined the box for me using 1.5mm stainless.

After this the exhaust was working well, and sounding well, untill about 3 weeks ago.

When starting the car, the exhaust sounded well, and it sounded well at idle.

As soon as you put it under load, you could here it blowing, and then after that it would be noisey at idle.

So i put the car on the ramp at work, and came across this

Image

Image


At the rear of the centre box, both pipes, cracked all the way around !!!

What do you guys reckon ?

My conclusion is that the centre section has been rush built using the wrong materials !

Anyway, i'm stuck with this now, so i thought i'd warn other people. I certainly will not be buying anymore scorpion products.

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Re: Alpina vs Hartge on the 1/4 mile

Post by bastosm3 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:18 pm

sorry to rape your thread topcat !

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