316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post Reply
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Friend and former F3 driver drove the car past Saturday, motorway mainly.

His remarks:
He liked the engine very much.
He also (such as a lot of people) finds the transmission too long
He said that either the car’s front is very “soft”, or the rear is too hard.

So I guess that we are going for a 3,64 rack and pinion again.

However, about soft/hard front/rear, I wonder whether I should go for a thicker front ARB or I should remove the 19mm rear bar in favour of my old 16mm again. I think it is a non stop trial and error thing


/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
Jeroen
Site Admin
Posts: 29199
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:23 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Baur
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by Jeroen »

The thing is that the rear shouldn't be too hard or the car will become tail happy, but that should be found more in the correct choice for springs and dampers in my opinion, what do you have fitted currently? With the bigger rear sway bar, a bigger front zway bar might help to improve balance.

The good thing about sway bars is that they reduce body roll without making the suspension stiffer. Only thing is that it can make the car a bit more tricky in the wet, but that is only the case when pushing hard.
Regards/groeten, Jeroen
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Maybe I should explain myself more precisely: When I said soft front / hard rear, I did not mean this concerning ride (such as more comfortable / less comfortable). What the guy meant is he finds that the car becomes a bit tricky when driven fast in motorway with its front behaving quite differently than the rear. So according to him, one of the following should be done 1) either looking for a thicker front arb to compensate the current thicker rear, or 2) refitting my old 16mm rear so as to keep front part harder than rear
By the way, suspension set up is B8 with Eibach and I find this ride the best I had so far (and I don't find B8s stiff)
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
Jeroen
Site Admin
Posts: 29199
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:23 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Baur
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by Jeroen »

I guess he's right, with that setup the thing that stayed behind is the front ARB indeed.
Regards/groeten, Jeroen
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

However, I don't see any 25mm front ARB that can be fitted on my car (1977 model)
So this is why the thought of going back a step in the previous ARB set up (22 front-16 rear) occurred to me
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

What are your opinions on higher output alternators?
I run the same alternator (Replaced by a new part from a Danish manufacturer found in 2012) from my 1.6 engine.
I don't remember exactly this alternator's output, but I think it is either 45A or 55A not more.
Now the car, apart from having a bigger engine, has a lot more of electric gadgets, such as lights with projectors (these are very thirsty, it shows on the voltmeter), electric fuel pump, msd ignition, electric steering column, lsd gauges (well I guess these ones are the smallest of battery problems), plus everything else that existed before as well.
When engine's on and no lights/heater/fan/antimist lines/windshield wipers are working, I get 14-14.1 volts on the voltmeter which shows-I guess- that my current alternator works fine.
When in winter (ok -rare thing in Athens, but we also get it sometimes) I need to use all the above, I have sometimes seen 11.8 volts - which (if voltmeter shows right) means that at this very moment the battery is giving more than it takes, right?
So I was wondering, what are the pros and the cons of a higher output alternator.
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

I wonder what Outputs (A) are your alternators ?
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
uwbuurman
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 18637
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:49 pm
My E21(s): 1978 type 1 323i 5speed dogleg Polaris
Location: Ljouwert

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by uwbuurman »

Well, I have mine rebuild. It gives 13.2volts, but when the engine is warm, it drops to 11.2volts. Don't know why...
It's the man next door!

1978 BMW 323i
1980 BMW 528i maior restitutio
1987 BMW 325iA cabriolet
2006 BMW 320d touring High Executive
2015 BMW 320dA touring xDrive High Executive ///Msport
User avatar
Jeroen
Site Admin
Posts: 29199
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:23 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Baur
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by Jeroen »

I can imagine you want to uprate the alternator, but it is unnecessary to go to extremes, it's running fine now, right? So mainly what you are trying to achieve is to keep a stable output in extreme situations, for example when you're stuck in a traffic jam and you need to have your headlights on. That is when you want to have enough output and not drain the battery.

In this, voltage is only an indication, it's the current (Amps) you need for charging and starting. Then again, it also makes a huge difference where you measure your voltage, best is direct at the battery. That does require your wiring to be in perfect condition and corrosion is your biggest enemy, main leads between battery, starter, alternator and fusebox. Corrosion free fuses, enough blank metal material where ground straks are hooked up, especially the main between battery and chassis where usually you loose a lot of current at a corroded front leg.

If all is checked and perfect I think I'd go for a 65A alternator and a 63A battery, unless you are currently experiencing issues.
Regards/groeten, Jeroen
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Really close then:
I am going for a 65A alternator already.
We found one, had it serviced and rebuilt, and now I am waiting to fit it (probably today).
And my battery is a fairly fresh (last year) 62Ah "Banner"

I will wait and see if this serviced old 65 A alternator is any better than my (bought new in 2012) 55A, because the latter is indeed running fine when not much is asked from the car concerning electrics.

uwbuurman wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:18 am Well, I have mine rebuild. It gives 13.2volts, but when the engine is warm, it drops to 11.2volts. Don't know why...
Concerning this, let me ask my electrician, in any case this is not a good sign, it seems you have an issue there
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

However, what would you think about fitting a higher output ? 80A or even 105A, numbers which I have been told were available - (although now maybe rare to find) - for M10 engines
What would the pros and the cons be?
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
BertjeConti
E21 Mad
Posts: 3007
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:49 pm
My E21(s): E12 520-6
Location: nederland , Weert

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by BertjeConti »

I've fitted a 80A alternator (M20 engine), because our car has a lot of extra's which consume a lot of current, like a fuel pump and megasquirt system, 2 sets of extra driving lights (4*55 Watts) and all the electronic rally equipment.

Since the alternator upgrade we never experienced "current" problems.

But for a nornal equipped e21 a 65A alternator should be enough.
Like Jeroen said, all the wiring and connections should be in good condition. Bigger alternators don't cure bad wiring.
Image
Megasquirted '77 E12 520-6

Aspen Silver '96 E39 523i
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Fitted the 65A
Did not see any difference on the car’s voltmeter unfortunately
Almost the same as the previous one: 14.1 at idle without extra consumptions, up to 11.8 with lots of electrics on(depending of course on how many electrics are on each time) Which means I guess that I might have just spent my money in order to repair this one
I thought that I would see at least a 14.5V at idle without consumptions and that with consumption voltmeter would show no less than 13.0-13.5v. Perhaps if I fitted a 80A I might see this?
Earth and wiring are ok, according to the electrician
Besides, the comparison is always done with my previous alternator that is already in good working condition (bad earth/wiring etc would affect the electrics the same way before)
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
Jeroen
Site Admin
Posts: 29199
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:23 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Baur
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by Jeroen »

If it ain't broken, don't fix it!
Regards/groeten, Jeroen
User avatar
BertjeConti
E21 Mad
Posts: 3007
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:49 pm
My E21(s): E12 520-6
Location: nederland , Weert

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by BertjeConti »

Don't worry, at idle a alternater delivers only a fraction of its maximum power / current.

And, there is a lot of tolerance in regulators, the regulator regulates the maximum charging voltage. If you have several regulators laying around, try each one and measuere the charging voltage. You'll be surprised in differences.

And if you really want to know how good or bad your alternator is, measure the current it delivers!!
Image
Megasquirted '77 E12 520-6

Aspen Silver '96 E39 523i
Post Reply