bmwe21.net forums

thanks mates the car is nice but nearly sold to a friend,still have 7 bmw and 1 cosworth to finish

Hi.

I think I'll add my list of cars too.

For the winter I own an -81 315. In the summer I drive -82 323i so kinda e21 to the death style.

Though last two winters I drove a -84 Talbot Horizon. That was, umm, interesting. I also sometimes punish my mothers MB sportscoupe diesel or Toyota Yaris (this sets new standards of feeling nothing from the road).

Hope this message was somewhat understandable..

DaBoom wrote: Toyota Yaris (this sets new standards of feeling nothing from the road).

Hahaha, thats a nice way of putting it. The Yaris only just came out here - I've only seen one on the road so far (with a dopey blonde bird driving it ), but it was advertised for a very long time before it was released. It seems to represent the way cars are going these days: lots and lots of features that you really (I mean seriously) don't need, lots of buttons to press, really cheap price and no substance.....The last time I checked a car was there to be DRIVEN

Keep the old Bimmers running!

Cheers
Mathew

Holden Astra CD 2000Mdl - Auto with elec everything (except seats and climate):



My old weekend car (sold):

This Holden looks like European Opel Senator
Has it the same chassis? Am I wrong?

Here you have my cars...
Current Not bad, but wish to have some E30... Maybe this year...


And my previous monster


It's a piece of shit but I loved this car. Some says, that Fiat 126 have construction based on the Ferrari:
-engine in the back and RWD,
-place only for two person,
-little boot in the front,
-masses 50/50 (with the driver on board of course),
-Italian engineering,
-enourmous acceleration (0-100 about 1 minute)
-it gives a lot of fun

I'll cut Windy's grass here . The Holden Astra is just the Opel Astra in Europe. I assume you mean the last car which you think looks like an Opel Senator?.......I know that in standard form (here, known as the Holden Commodore) that car is sold in Europe as an Opel Omega with a different engine to ours. However, Windy's is a performance version with a big 350 V8 inside. Over here, a Holden Senator is a bigger version of the same car as Windy's. Its a different chassis than Windy's, but is basically based on Windy's car. Maybe this car is what gets sold in Europe as an Opel Senator; as Windy's car is sold there as an Opel Omega.

The reason for this (as you probably know) is that GM owns both Holden here and Opel and Vauxhall over in Europe. Hence the model-sharing.

CHeers
Mathew

I know Astra (it's still producing in Poland as "Opel Astra Classic II" )
I wrote about this second car...

I know that GM owns Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, Pontiac etc too

I think there is a little mess with this GM's Omega/Senator/Commodore producing politics...

In Europe there was an Opel Omega, that's right. It looks like that:

Opel Senator was the bigger, and more luxury version of Omega:



Windy's Holden looks exactly like European Senator, not Omega Especially if you look aside.
Have you got some photos of Australian Senator?

P.S. Discussion about GM on BMW site Tragedy...

Pablo wrote: P.S. Discussion about GM on BMW site Tragedy...

Tell me about it

Yes, I assumed you'd know about the Astra and the Omega, but the Senator is confusing to me too!

The Senator in your picture is exactly like Windy's, and is just like my friends Commodore - a VR designation (the lettering works the same way as e21, e30 etc - VR denotes the shape of a 1993-1995 Commodore). The Omega you showed is simply a VP designation Commodore here (the one before the VR). It is strange that they sell them in Europe as a Senator instead of as an Omega like the rest of them!

I was wrong before! (see, I dont drive GM, and did a very bad job at cutting Windy's grass! ) A Senator here - Holden Senator - is not a much bigger luxury car, that is the Statesman (a senator is a type of statesman in government I guess ) and the Caprice! The one in your picture is just a normal Commodore! I dont have a picture of a Senator, but I'll try to find you a link.....

Cheers
Mathew

OK, here is a Holden Senator.....

http://www.deakin.edu.au/~wojo/hsv/hsv.html

It is the same as Windy's, I think Windy's is actually a Senator too . But the Senator here is a HSV high performance vehicle. The one you showed is just a standard car. In standard form over here, these cars are called COmmodores - normally exported as Omegas to Europe. Over there, the name Senator doesnt seem to denote performance, while here it does. This is why I found it strange that you'd have a standard Holden there called Senator, rather than just Omega like the rest of them.

Here is another link full of amusing stuff Aussies have to say about GM and Ford products:

http://www.smh.com.au/yoursay/2003/02/07/

CHeers
Mathew

Mat,

You're not too up to date with your local knowledge

My ex-car is a HSV Clubsport........ Holden Special Vehicle. Not a commodore at all. Like saying a E36 318is is the same as an M3!!! Same chassis etc, but performance orientated.

Yes, the chassis is based on the Omega.


Ummmmmmmm.........Commodores were never exported to Europe as Omegas!!?? They were made by Vauxhall for the European market.

Holden exports it's long wheelbase version to the Middle East and I'm sure everyone knows about the Pontiac GTO (Holden Monaro with a few mods and badge change), but Holden's main export is the 4cyl engine that goes into Daewoo cars.

Cheers
Windy

Yep! - I stuffed up good there . For some reason I got the Senator and the Statesman mixed up.

Yours is a Clubsport then, but what is the actual difference between the Clubbie and the Senator? They look outwardly the same, and probably have the same motor - maybe slightly different power outputs; but Holden arent big on variety in performance engines .

And the reason I refer to them as Commies is because they are based on a 'Dore platform and are almost the same car but with a V8 engine and some tweaked suspension etc; which of course makes thewm fun to drive - I dont mind the HSVs mind you. But the chassis pretty much does make the car - a 318is and an M3 are different, but they are both a 3 series, with the M3 not being a totally diifferent car, just the culmination of the 3 series ..... My mate has a VR Berlina, but I tirelessly refer to it as a Commodore, because it is. It is the same car, but with electric windows etc and an alternative price tag. A 323i with electric windows or without is still a 323i . Yes, yes, I know I'm being a pointy head and showing my ignorance in regard to GM

But with the Opel Omegas, these cars are obviously based upon our Commodores here, I saw them whilst in Europe mid last year. I saw a VP version, a VR version and a VT version. Hence why Pablo noticed the similarities between your HSV and the 'Senator' in the pic. The only difference is that they have reworked headlights and a different motor (and they dont sell too good). If the European Omegas are made in England, that begs the question as to where our Commodores came from. They are probably then based on this Vauxhall designed Omega and are reworked here into being Commodores. After all, the first VB Commodore was an Opel or Vauxhall car.

Clubsport and Senator shared the same 185kw engine (we're talking 10 years ago here. Now the engines are at 297kw for an entry model - lol) The Senator had an optional 215kw engine.

No HSV has commodore badging, nor shares the same interior, steering wheel, engine, diff etc. But it's the same if you say so.

Opel Omegas are NOT based on Commodores.

It's very much the other way around.

Windy wrote: Opel Omegas are NOT based on Commodores.
It's very much the other way around.

OK, so the Commodore is based on an Omega? I know the first Commodore was an Opel or Vauxhall T- car or something (the Camira was a J-car) that was sent here and tweaked into a Commodore. This lasted until the VL through various facelifts; but where did the VN come from? Was it also an Opel/Vauxhall then?

Mat (of e30 fame) wrote: but where did the VN come from? Was it also an Opel/Vauxhall then?

Opel Omega!! Isn't it obvious??!!

I drive a 1986 Ford Taurus LX with all the goodies.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/762835/1