building a 2 litre M10 turbo
building a 2 litre M10 turbo
righty ho.
im going to build myself a 2 litre M10 turbo
i will be aquiring myself a e30 M10 318i some 2002 pistons and 2 litre crank.
is it possible to build the engine with out removing the head, i will be taking the head of eventually and fitting a de comp plate ready for the turbo but would rather not have to do it twice and i need to run the car NA for a while. turbo kit will come when i can afford the bugger!
im thinking it could be a pain in the ass getting piston ring compressors to sit on the inside though to get the pistons into place??
would also need to borrow some ring compressors of somebody when that time comes but thats a problem to worry about later on
any hints and tips would be great and suggestions.
oh and the long term plan is to build a 250 hp turbo engine with 50 nitrous so suggestions on best parts to achieve this power safley please. i like cheap options
im going to build myself a 2 litre M10 turbo
i will be aquiring myself a e30 M10 318i some 2002 pistons and 2 litre crank.
is it possible to build the engine with out removing the head, i will be taking the head of eventually and fitting a de comp plate ready for the turbo but would rather not have to do it twice and i need to run the car NA for a while. turbo kit will come when i can afford the bugger!
im thinking it could be a pain in the ass getting piston ring compressors to sit on the inside though to get the pistons into place??
would also need to borrow some ring compressors of somebody when that time comes but thats a problem to worry about later on
any hints and tips would be great and suggestions.
oh and the long term plan is to build a 250 hp turbo engine with 50 nitrous so suggestions on best parts to achieve this power safley please. i like cheap options
- E21meister
- E21 Pro
- Posts: 915
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:46 pm
Re: building a 2 litre M10 turbo
Building an engine upside down (i.e. installing the pistons through the opposite end of the bore) would probably be an absolute pain, but surely swapping in a head gasket with the engine out of the car and on a stand would be a piece of cake? That way while the head is off you can put the pistons in, although if you do that then you should preferably install the crank at the same time. Unless anyone knows different about the pitfalls of installing pistons in bores while not installing the crank and rods straight away?
what i mean is i dont want to put a normal head gasket on then 3 months down the line have to remove the head again then put the spacer plate on with 2 more gaskets, i suppose the cost of a cheapo gasket to run NA wont be that high, guess i just gotta fork out a bitta wonga.
guess i better add that to the list of stuff then.
hmmmmmmmm does n e one have a nice big cam for me to install?????? if the heads coming off n e way lol
guess i have to change the sump off the e21 onto the e30 engine and oil pickup, give that a clean and a check while im there
guess i better add that to the list of stuff then.
hmmmmmmmm does n e one have a nice big cam for me to install?????? if the heads coming off n e way lol
guess i have to change the sump off the e21 onto the e30 engine and oil pickup, give that a clean and a check while im there
- Jason_323i
- E21 Pro
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:43 pm
- Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/#!/e21jason
- Location: Dubai UAE
tomi build it once build it right
use your current engine to prove what ever efi are using
then bolt on the low pressue turbo
check every thing works an fits
biuld a fresh 2.0 and swap it over
jason
use your current engine to prove what ever efi are using
then bolt on the low pressue turbo
check every thing works an fits
biuld a fresh 2.0 and swap it over
jason
Last edited by Jason_323i on Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BMW e21 race car supercharged s14 cage and fabrication by www.chizfab.com
Z3M Coupe
2.8 Z3 Coupe
Caterham Supersport
Clio 172 Cup factory race car(50%)
Ferrari 348 Challenge track car
Z3M Coupe
2.8 Z3 Coupe
Caterham Supersport
Clio 172 Cup factory race car(50%)
Ferrari 348 Challenge track car
- e21-Mark
- E21 Master
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:19 pm
- My E21(s): 316 m52/2.8 Cat Cams & Jenvey ITB
- Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/JackyardBackoff
- Location: Cornwall - UK
ive been having a nice chat with ant and i have made some plans, will defo be going the 2 litre route
going to put the 2 litre all togther but not change the compression, ant seems to think that it can handle the pressure nicely as long as i dont go silly. Nitrous prob isnt going to be involved any more so that kit might be up for sale soon to pay for conversion work me thinks.
going to build engine with all new gaskets and bearings. gonna run a comitec multi layer steel gasket as thick as they go with ARP headbolts
gonna run full mega squirt so will need that trigger wheel of jason i think.
have also found myself an engine stand which merc are gonna lend me for a month. so momment i have bought engine will organize everything.
time to start saving
going to put the 2 litre all togther but not change the compression, ant seems to think that it can handle the pressure nicely as long as i dont go silly. Nitrous prob isnt going to be involved any more so that kit might be up for sale soon to pay for conversion work me thinks.
going to build engine with all new gaskets and bearings. gonna run a comitec multi layer steel gasket as thick as they go with ARP headbolts
gonna run full mega squirt so will need that trigger wheel of jason i think.
have also found myself an engine stand which merc are gonna lend me for a month. so momment i have bought engine will organize everything.
time to start saving
- jrcook320
- Upcoming E21 fanatic
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:06 am
- Location: OH, USA
- Contact:
Re: building a 2 litre M10 turbo
How much compression does the stock euro 1.8 m10 run?austin25uk wrote:righty ho.
im going to build myself a 2 litre M10 turbo
i will be aquiring myself a e30 M10 318i some 2002 pistons and 2 litre crank.
is it possible to build the engine with out removing the head, i will be taking the head of eventually and fitting a de comp plate ready for the turbo but would rather not have to do it twice and i need to run the car NA for a while. turbo kit will come when i can afford the bugger!
im thinking it could be a pain in the ass getting piston ring compressors to sit on the inside though to get the pistons into place??
would also need to borrow some ring compressors of somebody when that time comes but thats a problem to worry about later on
any hints and tips would be great and suggestions.
oh and the long term plan is to build a 250 hp turbo engine with 50 nitrous so suggestions on best parts to achieve this power safley please. i like cheap options
You cannot rebuild the motor with the head on. It just doesn't make sense, for one, but you hit the nail on the head, a ring compressor won't work well from the bottom. If you're serious about making good power and having a good rebuilt motor, you need to go through the head, do a valve job, and at a minimum you'll need to hone the bores for new rings. This of course assumes the cylinders don't need rebored. If they are ridged significantly, they WILL need rebored in which case you will need new pistons anyway. At that point, you might as well spring for 90mm or 91mm forged pistons to build a stout 2.1L m10, and I'd aim for something in the 8.5:1 compression ratio.
A thicker head gasket is not a great way to lower compression because you loose squish. Squish is the area of the combustion chamber where the piston comes very close to the flat portion of the cylinder head. The closer you come to the head (without touching), the better, because this squish are creates turbulence within the chamber. This turbulence greatly increases combustion efficiency, maximized power and fuel economy. A thicker head gasket can wreak havoc on combustion efficiency, cause tuning issues, heat issues, etc and can actually induce knock due to the loss in efficiency. Go to bimmerforums and look up an MLS head gasket thread by boomerdj. After swapping in a thicker MLS gasket his engine ran hot and it would spark knock every time it would boost. He was running EDIS and no amount of ignition tuning could tune it out. We chalked it up to the thick head gasket.
For a good cheap build (like mine), your cheapest option is a simple hone job (again, this depends on the condition of your block), a stock rebuild with rings, bearings, and at a minimum a valve job on the head, and use flat top pistons from a 2.0L m10. The flat tops are common and cheap here in the states, I believe the 320/4 might have also used them over your side of the pond. This combo (along with the 1.8 head) will yeild a 7.9:1 or 8:1 compression ratio. Assuming a good tune (no detonation), the stock head gasket will hold about 14-15 lbs of boost, stock pistons will hold about 15 lbs before you break a ring land.
On a well designed and well matched system with a properly sized turbo, some head work (port/polish) and a mild cam (I'm running a 280), you CAN make around 250 bhp with stock internals. If you rebuild with forged pistons, o-ring the block using a stock head gasket (or use an MLS gasket), and run ARP head studs, the sky is the limit on how much boost you can run.
Just remember, sizing the turbo properly is going to depend on how much power you want to make as much as how big your motor is. For more info on sizing a turbo, check out my website and also the turbo section of the FAQ thread on bimmerforums. I've written up a ton of stuff that will be helpful, and I also have an excel spreadsheet that you can download to help you calculate how much airflow your motor will pump at a certain boost level which is critical for sizing a turbo.
If you don't care about the math, the best turbo you can run for your power goal is the GT28RS. If that's too expensive for you (it is for me), the T25 from an S13 nissan silvia has been awesome on my car.
| '81 320i Turbo | T25, 931 CIS, 250hp, 13.92@100mph | jrcook320.e21legion.net |
Re: building a 2 litre M10 turbo
some good info here, always interesting to read about turbo'ing na engines,jrcook320 wrote:How much compression does the stock euro 1.8 m10 run?austin25uk wrote:righty ho.
im going to build myself a 2 litre M10 turbo
i will be aquiring myself a e30 M10 318i some 2002 pistons and 2 litre crank.
is it possible to build the engine with out removing the head, i will be taking the head of eventually and fitting a de comp plate ready for the turbo but would rather not have to do it twice and i need to run the car NA for a while. turbo kit will come when i can afford the bugger!
im thinking it could be a pain in the ass getting piston ring compressors to sit on the inside though to get the pistons into place??
would also need to borrow some ring compressors of somebody when that time comes but thats a problem to worry about later on
any hints and tips would be great and suggestions.
oh and the long term plan is to build a 250 hp turbo engine with 50 nitrous so suggestions on best parts to achieve this power safley please. i like cheap options
You cannot rebuild the motor with the head on. It just doesn't make sense, for one, but you hit the nail on the head, a ring compressor won't work well from the bottom. If you're serious about making good power and having a good rebuilt motor, you need to go through the head, do a valve job, and at a minimum you'll need to hone the bores for new rings. This of course assumes the cylinders don't need rebored. If they are ridged significantly, they WILL need rebored in which case you will need new pistons anyway. At that point, you might as well spring for 90mm or 91mm forged pistons to build a stout 2.1L m10, and I'd aim for something in the 8.5:1 compression ratio.
A thicker head gasket is not a great way to lower compression because you loose squish. Squish is the area of the combustion chamber where the piston comes very close to the flat portion of the cylinder head. The closer you come to the head (without touching), the better, because this squish are creates turbulence within the chamber. This turbulence greatly increases combustion efficiency, maximized power and fuel economy. A thicker head gasket can wreak havoc on combustion efficiency, cause tuning issues, heat issues, etc and can actually induce knock due to the loss in efficiency. Go to bimmerforums and look up an MLS head gasket thread by boomerdj. After swapping in a thicker MLS gasket his engine ran hot and it would spark knock every time it would boost. He was running EDIS and no amount of ignition tuning could tune it out. We chalked it up to the thick head gasket.
For a good cheap build (like mine), your cheapest option is a simple hone job (again, this depends on the condition of your block), a stock rebuild with rings, bearings, and at a minimum a valve job on the head, and use flat top pistons from a 2.0L m10. The flat tops are common and cheap here in the states, I believe the 320/4 might have also used them over your side of the pond. This combo (along with the 1.8 head) will yeild a 7.9:1 or 8:1 compression ratio. Assuming a good tune (no detonation), the stock head gasket will hold about 14-15 lbs of boost, stock pistons will hold about 15 lbs before you break a ring land.
On a well designed and well matched system with a properly sized turbo, some head work (port/polish) and a mild cam (I'm running a 280), you CAN make around 250 bhp with stock internals. If you rebuild with forged pistons, o-ring the block using a stock head gasket (or use an MLS gasket), and run ARP head studs, the sky is the limit on how much boost you can run.
Just remember, sizing the turbo properly is going to depend on how much power you want to make as much as how big your motor is. For more info on sizing a turbo, check out my website and also the turbo section of the FAQ thread on bimmerforums. I've written up a ton of stuff that will be helpful, and I also have an excel spreadsheet that you can download to help you calculate how much airflow your motor will pump at a certain boost level which is critical for sizing a turbo.
If you don't care about the math, the best turbo you can run for your power goal is the GT28RS. If that's too expensive for you (it is for me), the T25 from an S13 nissan silvia has been awesome on my car.
E21 316 M60
good info but different to what others have told me.
i have picked my turbo now and i will list the specs on here.
i have the opurtunity to buy some new tii pistons from ben with slight overbore which would mean a slight rebore of the block. would be using all new bearings and regrind new seats for the valves.
ti pistons have raised tops but there is plenty of metal to get machined off.
will run a mls headgasket but not gonna worry about a spacer plate. arp head bolts would be nice. will see how far the budget stretch's.
i have picked my turbo now and i will list the specs on here.
i have the opurtunity to buy some new tii pistons from ben with slight overbore which would mean a slight rebore of the block. would be using all new bearings and regrind new seats for the valves.
ti pistons have raised tops but there is plenty of metal to get machined off.
will run a mls headgasket but not gonna worry about a spacer plate. arp head bolts would be nice. will see how far the budget stretch's.
- jrcook320
- Upcoming E21 fanatic
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:06 am
- Location: OH, USA
- Contact:
what have others told you?
| '81 320i Turbo | T25, 931 CIS, 250hp, 13.92@100mph | jrcook320.e21legion.net |