bmwe21.net forums

Hey forum types. Glad you'd have me.

SO! Here's my problem right now:

I'll try and be brief, while still starting at the beginning.

I got this '77 320i from a dude. I paid maybe a little too much, but felt okay about it. It had issues. There was a slight rockyness in the acceleration, like a skip as the tac climbed. I replaced the exhaust manifold (had a GAPING hole) and that didn't seem to fix it. I put that electronic ignition in and for about a block it felt great, then all of a sudden, definitively not great. Downright terrible.

I took my car to "care care service" in Alemeda per suggestion of a friend (he made it clear that he hadn't dealt with them too much, nothing is his fault at all). They diagnosed it as a blown head gasket (which was in fact the/a problem at that point, I saw the gasket and there was a break between the 3 and 4 cylinders).

They also did:

What seems like every gasket in the top of the engine (exhaust and intake)
Plugs
valve stem seals
machined the head

When I came to pick it up I was pretty unhappy. Though it now seemed to run better (it felt like it at least sort of fired on all cylinders), it raced at idle pretty significantly. I drove it around for a day (not far, not hard) and then now it seems a little worse and I can see smoke when I'm under the hood from what looks like fairly deep in the engine. Additionally when it's revving I can hear a sort of sucking of air noise coming from somewhere I can't really find. I don't remember if it did this right out the door from the mechanic.

When I picked it up the garage suggested that I replace the "fuel injection pump and the idle control" as he decided this was the problem. He additionally stated that I should do it fairly soon as not to blow another head gasket. They went so far as to make me sign something that said I understood that I should replace this soon or face potential damage to my car.

THEN today I went out, ran it a little and looked around under the hood as best I could. It's definitely smoking, it's definitely running really rich. AND I found a piece (about a quarter of a circle) of what looks like a new gasket in the belly of the car (sort of on top of the axle). Along with that I found a few washers, and a beat up nut.

SO, now I'm left with almost no money (they charged me f*** $2200) and a fairly non-functioning car. I need help.

My first question is should I take it back and yell at them? Should I just wash my hands of these dudes and try and learn my lesson from that interaction? Really, is this there fault. I am left feeling like a dupe for signing anything, but I still feel like maybe their work sucked and I should try to get them to remedy it.

Second question:

WTF. What's going on. Does their diagnosis seem to make a lot of sense? I was looking through the old paperwork in the car and I found this from a few years ago: "diagnose car will not idle & surging badly. We found a broken main vacuum hose on the bottom of the intake manifold. We also noticed the air mass boot torn and the hose that goes to the aux air valve torn. Remove two intake plenum pipes in order to replace hose under intake manifold, install new intake cis boot & hose going from manifold to aux air valve". This does seem quite relevant to what's going on now. Did they damage my EGR or vacuum around the intake? The surging does seem like it could be a vacuum issue pretty easily.

Should I try just replacing the $25 o2 censor? Any smart way of finding the leak way down deep in there? Maybe wave a feather or a stick of incense around while blocking the cooling fan with some cardboard?

I'm new on the old car scene and admittedly pretty frustrated by my lack of ability. Any help would be appreciated. If you've read this far, I already thank you.

Any suggestions would be awesome.

Thanks in advance,

-Brady

2200? youd have been better off spending a 1/4 of that on some tools and get stuck in yourself.

does sound like a vacuum/beather leak to me. best way of finding vacuum leaks (even tiny ones) is to get the exhaust emissions machine in the exhaust, car idling, then with a can of carb cleaner squirt various bits of the intake (one at a time) you think might be leaking. keeping an eye on the emissions machine.... if theres a leak from say, an injector seal... the carb cleaner is pulled in and burnt in the engine. the hc's figure will go up then drop off. also to start with you'll have a high o2 reading too.
a big leak such as the one your describing should be easy to find as it will be making a sucking noise, breather pipes also tend to be leaking crank case gasses oily smelling smoke.
vac leaks are common on old cars because the hoses deteriorate with time/engine fumes/oil contamination.

Hey! Thanks for the reply. As it turned out the idiots I brought my car to had the vacuum lines hooked up all wrong. I BELIEVE I got that straightened out and after some tuning I've gotten it to idle smooth enough, but not rev above about 3000 rpms. My buddy said that he thinks through running rich I've clogged up my cat and created a situation in which the back pressure inhibits the revving. Does this sound reasonable? Before changing up the vacuum setup it did rev okay. I'm also suspect of the check valve for the vacuum going into the top of the intake. What direction should that be heading? I have a black/white one which I believe indicates flow from white to black and not back. Is that correct? Which direction should that be oriented in? It seemed like there was a little bit of vacuum at the tail pipe when I was messing with it yesterday and that threw me for a loop. My buddy suggested taking the exhaust off and checking out the cat. I also installed a 1978 california version of the "thermal reactor" exhaust manifold that I'm worried about. Upon further review my car is a 49 state version and shouldn't really be fit with the california "reactor", but this shouldn't be to problematic, right? I just hope that's not all gummed up, but it seems less likely.

I can't believe I gave those idiots money. I'm writing a letter trying to get some of it back based on how crappy their work was. I keep finding new screw ups and that's just what I CAN see.

Thanks for taking time for a noob like myself. Awaiting a smart reply.

steves site has a factory shop manual that can be downloaded which might be helpfull !
http://77e21.info/repairmanual.htm

Yeah, I looked in there but, but I couldn't find it.

Where in the US are you based? Might be another e21 owner nearby who can have a look for you or put you in touch with a sensibly priced workshop?

This engine sounds really messed up. I hate to bring it to you but maybe you should just replace the entire block for a second hand one?
I know what you're going through since i didn't know what i bought or what kind of world i went in to, oldtimer BMW's. I also bought a e21 with a engine with problems...
If you feel this engine has some kind of future, you should just check or replace every air hose. And then check everything that has a part in regulating the fuel. Meaning the extra air slide, fuel divider and fuel pressure regulator (next to the fuel pump). This engine sounds really worn down and if you fired another gasket (the half circle part) i really don't know how much more money it's gonna cost.

I'm not saying im thé expert here but my engine also needed a heavy repair and i believe gaskets and everything about the fuel mixture/pressure etc. is vital in these engines and are the first to die in these old engines.

Like i said just think if it's gonna be worth it. Or that you maybe can use another car in the meanwhile and see if you can find a second hand engine and swap it in? Just an idea.

this is the problem with mechanical fuel injection, stuff goes wrong/doesnt work as well as it should, fuel pressures in certain parts of the fuel system arnt what they should be, regulating valves/injectors get gunked up, even the smallest air leak buggers it all up, fuel metering heads out of adjustment (totally stupid way of regulating fuel), cold start injector's not working because the warm up regulators open circuit etc etc.

throw it all away in favour of a more modern injection ecu based system like a 318i system from an e30 then chip it for a 2l engine. while your fitting all the injection you can check and replace stuff and learn shit loads about how it works rather than looking and scratching your head like a chuff at a prehistoric system thats 10 times worse than a carb at fueling an engine acuratley.

the basic head and block will be fine but id junk all the k/l-jet for a 1990's injection (motronic).

and the worst part of mechanical injection is no-one can figure out whats wrong with it when it goes wrong. total f*** mystery to me and i know more than most about it.