bmwe21.net forums

Hello.

New to the board and contemplating a purchase of what COULD BE an e21 Alpina C1. Reason I say COULD BE because I'm not convinced of the authenticity. Two things that jump at me right away:

- The car has a factory fitted automatic transmission
- The speedo is not an Alpina speedo, and as far as I know, it's the original not a retrofit

Everything else, down to an Alpina ID plate in the dash is present: Alpina wheels, Alpina Steering wheel, Alpina Gear Shift knob, Alpina Front Spoiler, Rear lip spoiler, and an Alpina Dash Plate.

1) Did Alpina ever build a C1 with an Automatic Transmission option?
2) If yes, what should I look for in the engine bay that might validate the authenticity of this car?

All info and help are appreciated.

Don't think I ever heard of an auto C1 but its possible. What does the dash plaque say? Where was the car converted to C1? Alpina only did a handfull, dealerships did the rest...

Not sure where the car was converted. I've attached a picture of the exact similar plaque on the dash (but not the actual one). The other picture is of the BMW factory VIN plate and Alpina logo. The VIN plate is in the engine bay at the fire wall.

As you know there has always been a lot of trade in these id plaques, or the other parts on your car. Believe there should be an Alpina no on the cyl head but I'm not 100% sure

Jeroen,

Thanks for the replies so far. You're right, the plaques and parts were available for anyone to buy and fake the cars, and that's what scares me about this one. It has a bunch of Alpina bits on it but they could have all been put on there for show:

- Front seats are the Recaro cloth seats with the Alpina color scheme
- Alpina steering wheel
- Alpina shift knob
- Alpina dash plaque
- Alpina front spoiler
- Alpina rear rubber lip spoiler
- Alpina C1 2.3 trunk emblem
- Alpina grill emblem
- Alpina wheels
- Alpina trunk roundel
- Alpina "Alpina" trunk emblem

As I've said before though, the automatic transmission and lack of Alpina script on the speedometer and tachometer are 2 big question marks for me.

Where on the cylinder head can I find the engine number, and what else should I look for under the hood for authenticity?

Hi Samer, it would be useful to have more pictures, but I understand if you want to keep a potential purchase less public for now or simply don't have any. I'm not a massive expert on Alpina's, but some thoughts having owned one and learned more about them from this site.

The Alpina roundel badge you've shown in the engine bay doesn't sit too well with me - almost like it's trying too hard.
You also mention an Alpina trunk roundel. Apart from the fact that I hate them, I'm 99% certain all Alpinas still have a BMW roundel. An Alpina B10 I bought from a really decent guy had them fitted, so some people like to add to the Alpinaness I guess! I swiftly changed them to BMW ones.
In terms of the speedometer not saying Alpina, maybe the other thing you could look for is the top mph/kph. This is higher than a stock e21 as below.



Another clue is an additional fuel tank that was fitted to some Alpina's in the trunk



Personally, if it is in good condition, has been looked after and isn't being sold for a fortune, then I wouldn't have problems buying a replica. Just make sure you're not going past the 10k mark if it isn't.

Good luck

Hello Arshad,

Thank you for the information. There are a few things as you mention, that do not sit well with me either:

- The Alpina "roundel" under the hood: None of the pictures of early Alpinas I saw on the internet have that.
- The speedo and tach: Other than the fact that neither has the "Alpina" script, the speedo only goes up to 220KPH

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the car to look for other clues, but I'm not planning on spending more than $3K on the purchase. It's in good shape, but at this point, I'm not convinced it's an Alpina yet.

No one was able to answer my question about early Alpinas and the Automatic Transmission yet.

Keep in mind that back then Alpina was not an official manufacturer, more like a tuning business where the customer was king. There's a magazine article about a 320 Auto that received Alpina suspention and wheels and was then allowed to be called 320 Alpina. Pretty sure not-so-complete conversions were available as C1. It was even the other way around, cars were supplied without external mods so they could pass as a regular 323i to avoid excessive import tax. And where the B6 usually received pretty much the full package, you could order a C1 with just the engine and suspension done. The 260 kph tach was mainly used on the B6 and not often, perhaps not at all, on the C1.

That's what fueled the trade: anything with a 2.3 litre M20 could be an Alpina resulting in thousands of 323i's being offered for sale as C1. And since no one kept a file on work performed the modified head may be the only clue. In encountered one of those, many years ago.

So let's assume that this e21 was modified at a dealer, would he have left the speedo without the "Alpina" script? Also, and recognizing that Alpina was still a Tuner back then as opposed to a Manufacturer, were all VIN plates left as is with no mention of Alpina on them anywhere, or should the car have something (other than the dash plaque which we know can be a fake) that indicates it as being an Alpina?

If this is a fake, and it could very well be, someone went to a whole lot of trouble with the mods, especially the seats, and I imagine that Alpina Recaros were an expensive option, even back then. Add the steering wheel, Alpina wheels and spoilers, etc.

Assuming I can buy it "cheap", I would still be interested in it. This particular e21 is in nice shape, and I would want to swap the Auto Tranny with a Getrag 5-speed (perhaps a dog leg 260), especially if it proves to be an Alpina. Thoughts?

As I wrote, the C1 came with a stock 220 kph tach, in most cases without Alpina inscription. Alpina was not allowed to issue VIN numbers or VIN plates, some were made shortly after though when they got their manufacturers status around 1983. All the options, well these could all be bought for peanuts say 15 years ago, I saw Alpina Recaro interiors go for as little as 250-400 euros since people didn't like the towel style cloth. So I'm not convinced yet

Sounds good Jeroen. Thanks for the quick replies.

Hello Samer,

I'm not English but French. Therefore, it's very difficult for me to express myself properly. But, I will try to help you..

If the car is original one with automatic transmission, the BMW type will be WBAAH41 on the BMW plate and write 323iA too.

Normally,, the Alpina engine must have some exploitable clues, without dismantling :

- a 4-digit number hit, matching the C1 code on the engine, just next to the number bmw on the bloc (VIN)

- a hit number of 4 digits on the cylinder head, on the cylinder number 1 exactly

- the valve cover must have a specific color too, like a dark gray metallic

The modification itself :
- forged pistons
- camshaft

Work on engine cylinder head :
- combustion chambers rounded
- intake valves wider diameter +1mm
- larger exhaust pipes

+ complete exhaust ligne with diameter 54mm if i remember well.

Despite all i wrote, it is not necessarily an Alpina.
Because an Alpina was assembled exclusively in Buchloe or Kaufbeuren in Germany.
ALPINA is the only one who can tell you if it's a real ALPINA C1.
They need to know numbers on the motor and the plate-number inside.
You might send them an email with all these informations. I think they could response you.

Hope it will help you ..

Salut Olivier,

Merci pour votre reponse. Tres bon effort en Anglais et tres claire reponse! Je ne suis pas Americain, mais je suis Francophone.

The information you provided is very valuable, but unfortunately I don't have access to the car to get the Head and Engine serial numbers. some one told me that the engine number is "usually" the same as the last 7 digits of the VIN. I already emailed Alpina for verification, but the person in charge is on vacation until the end of August.

My plan is to buy the car anyway, especially if it is in the budget I have in mind for it, since I am taking a chance on authenticity. I'll let you know.

Jeroen wrote:As I wrote, the C1 came with a stock 220 kph tach, in most cases without Alpina inscription. Alpina was not allowed to issue VIN numbers or VIN plates, some were made shortly after though when they got their manufacturers status around 1983. All the options, well these could all be bought for peanuts say 15 years ago, I saw Alpina Recaro interiors go for as little as 250-400 euros since people didn't like the towel style cloth. So I'm not convinced yet

This looks like an interesting debate

NB Alpina were producing their own VINs before 1983- My Herman has an Alpina VIN and it is 1980 (B6)

I think there are pictures elsewhere of it under Herman...............

So your can has an WBAP VIN? Did you run that past Alpina?