new eu laws on modifying your own car

[TopCat]

Dear All

Big issues are in prospect here over our ability and flexibility to modify our beloved (classic) cars

I won't go over all the details here but please look at the below link in our nCCCUK forum

http://www.classiccamaroclubuk.com/phpB ... f=1&t=1715

The key thing here is that many Members of this forum are EU based and are familiar with the TUV and strict modification rules that currently do not affect others but I can see trouble ahead ( as the song goes!).

Caveat!!

[murran]

im a tester and have read the eu directives and special notices etc. vosa are basically looking at the eu directives and working out the way of least resistance........ they dont want to change a thing!

its all bullshit really, a storm in a tea cup.

vosa dont want to lengthen the test time or have to spend money. this will be whittled down to a few vauge failure items that no tester will be interested in.
for example, noisy exhausts.... failure item description; exhaust is unreasonably noisy when compared to a vehicle of similar type with a standard exhaust in resonable condition.
no reading to check or anything just testers discretion, bob might fail it, but roger down the road will pass it.

i mean illegal engine chip mods..... what do they expect testers to do? strip into the ecu and look at the chip? drive it round the block to see if the car seems unreasonably fast???
its bollocks. at the moment uk testers cant remove hub caps to check if theres a wheel nut missing, despite a wheel bolt missing being a failure item!!!
illegal engine mods? what counts as illegal? a concord engine mounted on the roof? if a mod is carried out in a way the tester thinks is safe it'll pass. i certainly wont be failing anything that i judge as safe.
ffs, at present if someone mounted a javelin on the bonnet causing a sharp edge, i couldnt fail it as its not caused by damage or corrosion!!!

unless you have a nissan micra with a hemi v8 in the engine bay i wont be failing it!

audi a2s for example..... the bonnet needs to removed completely from the car to check certain things (like brake fluid level being above min.) under the current rules.... but because of risk of damaging the bonnet etc and it counts as removing a part of the car which were not allowed to do..... the bonnet stays on during a test!

it's all horse shit!

[arshad76]

That's an interesting reply Murran and I guess you're right. My MOT tester has gone a little bit stricter over the years (such as on emissions) because he says MOT's get uploaded to central database now, but he seems pretty cool generally. I think some garages will love the idea of failing cars for minuscule items and make up the money on repair bills.
Better cancel that Micra V8 project then

[murran]

apologies for the swearing in the post above, had a couple of beers last night.

some stations do have the emissions machine linked to the mot computer, it makes it more strict because the vehicle specific data is on the computer.
ours isnt linked yet but it will have to be soon!

[Jason_323i]

If you read the whole documents ecu modding restrictions etc is for new cars that meet the new ecu emissions laws, nothing to bother e21 owners

Jason

[TopCat]

Dear All

None of the responses above would allay my concerns if I were affected ie living within the EU with an old car that I was seeking to restore or modify!

In fact there is a website called
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

which is tryin to fight the bureacrats I have copied a chunk from their website below- these laws come into being for 2012 unless some exemptions are permitted!
http://www.fiva.org/Torino%20Downloads/ ... 0Draft.pdf

Taken from the above document

“Repair means the adaptation, refurbishment or replacement of existing or missing components. Repair aims first and foremost at implementing a pre-determined standard for mechanical integrity or in line with intended use. Repair does not care about the historic condition of components, the original materials or work techniques or the authentic substance of the vehicle; the only aim here is to make the object fully operable again.

Renovation concentrates on a more or less exact imitation of a “factory-new” appearance. Such a revision tries to extinguish all traces of real age and history on the vehicle, without much caring and on the expense of historic substance.
Vehicles or objects altered in this manner are in danger to lose their value as sources for cultural history. The renovation does normally not comply with the Charters approach on historic vehicles “

“Article 10 Any modifications required later for whatever reasons should respect the original’s structure and appearance. Ideally, such modifications should always be reversible, and any important original parts removed in the processes should be kept with the vehicle to allow later re-utilisation and to serve as reference for the originally existing substance.”

We have pulled the quotes from the document and we obviously suggest you read the entire link to see the quotations in full context.

However we see this as saying that vehicles that are just ‘repaired’, rather than using period parts and methods would not be accepted, in FIVAs view, as qualifying as a Historic Vehicle.

Likewise full ‘Renovations’, which most would refer to as restorations, to showroom specification and quality would not be seen to qualify for the Historic Vehicle Status. This Charter would leave Heritage, and other ‘new’ body reshells, in a seriously disadvantaged position.

If these vehicles became non registerable in historic Class there is no alternative taxation class available to them.

FIVA are negotiating exemptions from various proposed legislation from Historic Vehicles but can be clearly seen not to be taking into account much of the backbone of British Historic Vehicles and certainly none that are modified, but still qualify for Historic status by virtue of our existing DVLA 8 points system.

FIVA boast a membership of some 1.5 million EU wide, but by comparison, estimated figures indicate over 2 million involved in modifying, in the UK alone. With a rolling 30 year limit, across much of the EU ,for vehicles automatically being transferred to Historic status, many would fall under this classification by the simple virtue of ageing.

It is apparent that many modified or safe but historically inappropriately repaired, or showroom condition 'renovated' cars and even faithful replicas, would become unusable were the FIVA Charter proposals to become the legal definition across the EU.

We did ask FBHVC, as a member organisation of FIVA, for their views on this"

Of course the other option is to move to the Isle of Man where we do not have MOTs and are not in the EU!

We would love to welcome more classic car owners

[murran]

they cant just make peoples cars, that dont fall into their set of criteria, illegal, worthless and un-useable over night.

[TopCat]

oh you mean like hand guns...................

that is exactly what heppened to them!

watch this space

Please do write in to your MEP or MP - there is a suggested letter in the Ace-Org website

In fact I believe that the changes will be far more insidious- quite simple really they could apply today's emission scales to older cars dependent upon the test results (from MOT/TUV) that way they get the option of maximising the VED for some willing to pay £450 pa for the privilege of driving a classic E21 3000 miles a year!

[murran]

hand guns are a little different lol.

since when did somone writing to their mp do anything? they've got far more interesting problems like making sure they claim for the cost of their stationary from taxpayers.

they cant do that either, putting classics on modern cars emissions brackets. you cant impose a test they know the cars elidgable for, cant pass.
theres so few classic cars on the road they'd hardly get any extra cash from upping the ved.

[Helvelin]

unless you have a nissan micra with a hemi v8 in the engine bay i wont be failing it!

What about a 540 v8 in a bmw2002?

[TopCat]

First of all I do think that you should exercise your right to write to your MPs over subjects that vex you

Don't forget the number of lives lost so that we do have a sort of functioning democracy ! I have had good experiences from contacting MPs and MSPs over vexing issues- Danny Alexander as my "local" MP was helpful- as were a number of cousins/friends that appear in your parliament (over there!).

Locally we had a big rumpus over the increase in our IOM VED from £5 to £20- huge excitement lots of press and people with museums full of historic motorbikes closing doors to public etc etc

they soon got the message ! Result our Classic VED is now £10 but cut off remains pre 1987 and no longer moves forward each year.
I believe that classic VED in UK remains £0 but at pre 1973- am I right?
So please do avail yourselves of your ability to write in and influence matters- don't forget that the Arab Spring was all about the lack of this!

ps there are plenty of hard working "normal" MPs who have yet to claim for ANYTHING!

[murran]

yeah, ved is 0 for pre 73 cars tho you still need an in date tax disc displayed like everyone else which you'll need to mot and insurance to get even tho you dot pay anything....
it was a rolling 25 years old thing, but it was frozen at 73 in like 1998 i think. there was a big uproar about that too back in '98 everyone complaining etc..... didnt do any good back then....

soon as my loan is paid off (3 years or so.) we're looking at moving to new zealand anyway. yes there's more modding car laws there atm. but looking at the way things might be going here it wont be the case soon.

[TopCat]

great place NZ for classics

lots to tell you

but go see Irishman's Creek near Christchurch South Island
great roads no traffic!

btw Bruce Mclaren was a NZ!

[murran]

my e21 is going with me in a container btw! will they pick up on a welded diff in the wof test?

[TopCat]

what is a wof test?
is it canine?